Who is Dr. Cynthia Spence?
A conversation with the head of the Spelman Social Justice Program (Conducted by Lillian Green and edited by Jocelyn Baker)
Lillian: Good morning, Dr. Spence. Thank you so much for joining us! Could you please introduce yourself for those who might not know who you are?
Dr. Spence: Good morning. My name is Cynthia Spence, and I serve as the director of the Spelman Social Justice program, the director of the UNCF Mellon programs, and an associate professor of Sociology at Spelman College.
Lillian: For those listening who are unfamiliar with the work of the Spelman Social Justice Program can you provide us with a rundown of how you founded the Social Justice program and your time at Spelman.
Dr Spence: So I've actually been at Spelman all of my adult life. I'm a Spelman graduate. I went away to graduate school, and I returned after two years and started teaching as a part-time instructor and I've been here ever since. My part-time position turned into full-time, then I moved into the dean's office. I served as an assistant dean for freshman students, an associate academic dean, and an academic dean. I spent 17 years in the dean's office. While I was there, a lot of opportunities for students were developed, but also a lot of opportunities for the institution came across my desk, and one of them was an invitation to participate in a newly ideated program that was focusing on increasing the diversity of faculty members across the country. So, I was the campus coordinator for the UNCF Mellon programs, which meant I just focused on Spelman students getting into this program. But shortly after, I guess maybe about five years into the program, they needed a national director. I was invited to become the national director and was able to work that out with Spelman, understanding that it would not detract from my work here, but that I could simultaneously be the National Director of the UNCF Mellon programs. So I've been doing that now for about 30 years. When I moved from the Dean's office, I continued my teaching in the areas of violence against women. I was doing criminology, criminal justice, and sociology. But, the president knew that I had a very keen interest in social justice. An opportunity developed for Spelman to receive a major grant to support the development of a social justice program. The president at that time, Dr. Beverly Daniel Tatum, asked me if I would attend a meeting with her to convince this foundation to give us some money. The two of us went, it was Atlantic Philanthropies, it was a very successful engagement, and we used that money to establish the Social Justice Program. For me, it was important for students to understand how do you actually make a choice to change the world? It was during Dr. Tatum's tenure that the tagline developed. Spelman women make a choice to change the world. I wanted to activate that tagline with a social justice program that was aimed at helping students merge their intellectual interests with their social justice advocacy concerns. The program was created in 2011, and we're still going quite strong. It invites students from all majors who are interested in social justice advocacy. You will have students working on criminal justice reform or focusing specifically on women in prison. You'll have students who are interested in health inequities, students interested in environmental justice, students who are interested in period equity, and students who are interested in looking at and just engaging in difficult dialogues about race, class, gender, and sexuality. It serves as a platform for students who really just want to learn more about some of the major causes that pose challenges for us to live in a society where human rights are considered, where equity is, in fact, the framing concept for work, and of course, educational equity. So, we create that platform and we empower students to develop their own what we call “social justice, entrepreneurship projects”. You can imagine that during the presidential election year, which you know seems so long ago, we had a lot of activism around voting rights and voting education because we really wanted students to see that voting is one of the many ways that you can access social justice. But, in a nutshell, that's what the program is. It's a living and learning community. Most of the students reside in Laura Spelman Hall. However, there are students all over the campus who are engaged with social justice. We do book discussions, we even had special guest lecturers this past semester, we've had a documentary film series. We work with faculty across the disciplines to engage our students in social justice, advocacy, discussion, and implementation.
Lillian: That's very cool.
Dr. Spence: Thank you so much.
Lillian: Okay, so with how far the Social Justice program has come, it's been over 10 years now. What do you see in its future, or what would you like to see it evolve into?
Dr. Spence: Yeah, when I think about the Social Justice Program, I am concerned about quality control. And so this may sound strange, but actually, I'm thinking about making it smaller.
Lillian: Really?
Dr. Spence: Yes. And primarily because of quality control, because it is such a popular initiative.
Lillian: Yes, it is.
Dr. Spence: And I want to make certain that students who are very serious about social justice advocacy can receive the level of intensive grooming and placement either through internships, research, and assistantships that really do stamp their experience. We have really actively engaged students, but we also have a lot of students kind of out there on the margins, or they say that they're part of the social justice program, but they're not really a part of it because it looks good or sounds good. So, for me, I'm thinking about how we might reduce the number of students who participate, in an effort to make certain that every student who really is very serious about it receives the kind of quality experience that they deserve. So, I don't know, but I'm thinking that it's so popular that it's gotten too large, and it's difficult to manage.
Lillian: Right.
Dr. Spence: And, I just, I'm very much committed to the integrity of the program.
Lillian: Yeah. That makes sense. I would be committed to maintaining the integrity, too. You guys do a lot of important work. We wouldn't want anything to jeopardize that. How has the Social Justice Program evolved from its creation to now, and have the goals or main focuses of the program changed over time?
Dr. Spence: Well, it was smaller, it started off so the program was just 10 students who were fellows. Ten only ten. And that was because the initial grant that we received was large enough that we could provide scholarships for students. So we had 10 students who received $10,000 scholarships. They also had a built-in spring break international experience. We were able to take students to Cape Town, South Africa, to really talk about a society in transition. We looked at the Constitution of South Africa, and students had book discussions. But, it was just this group of ten, and they were paired with faculty mentors and alumnae mentors. I had alum whose work was in social justice, and they served as the mentors. It was really a wonderful, wonderful experience for that first ten. And then there were the next 10. But the program became so, so popular, the other students wanted to be a part of it, so I established the associates program, and that's how it just started ballooning out. And that's a good thing. That is a very good thing. The goals are still the same. My concern is, though, how do we make certain that we can maintain quality control? And unfortunately, I only have one person who serves as a program coordinator, who is absolutely amazing. But it's just the two of us.
Lillian: Oh, just one?
Dr. Spence: Yeah. Right? So she's there doing all the logistics. I'm doing, you know, the visioning, I'm working with students, da da da. She's doing the same. But it's a lot of work because if you see your emails, we're doing something, just about every day. And so it's a lot. In the future, I would like if the program, to maintain it, had a program coordinator, an administrative assistant, and probably a graduate student. To help us execute the program in a way that maintains the quality in a way that students are getting the attention that they need to develop their entrepreneurship projects. So if there were any changes, I would say that we need to do staffing changes. Also, the program is not institutionalized at Spelman. It is institutionalized in the ideological ethics of Spelman.
Lillian: Right.
Dr. Spence: But it's not financially institutionalized. So it is 90% dependent on the grants that I've written. And that's not sustainable. So, that would be another push for the college to take on the state program and have a real, defined budget for the program. The college does pay for the program coordinator, but beyond that we really are out here trying to get grants to support the initiatives for the programs.
Lillian: A lot of this work seems like a labor of love.
Dr. Spence: It is. Yeah. It is absolutely a labor of love because I believe in Spelman. I believe that we do need to have ways to create communities amongst students who have similar interests, but maybe different backgrounds, in terms of discipline. And so it is a labor of love. I'm so proud of how it's grown, but I do know that the current model is just not sustainable.
Lillian: Yeah. It's just not. Thank you, Dr. Spence. Recently, we've seen an aggressive attack on higher education. How do you see this affecting social justice research and efforts at Spelman College, if at all?
Dr. Spence: Yeah. It's something that I think about all the time. So far, Spelman has been pretty much under the radar, you know, of the federal attacks. However, as I mentioned, we're very much dependent on grant funding. The funding community is becoming a lot more cautious about what they fund and who they fund. I'm not saying that we've had anyone say no to Spelman, but I do anticipate that when we are writing grants to sustain the program, we're going to probably have to be very, very careful about the language that we use, such that funders don't feel as if they might be compromised by giving money to Spelman to support our initiatives. Social justice, just that terminology, was very popular when I founded the program; it became even more popular after 2020 with all of the racial unrest that was occurring. Funders were like, “Yeah, we want to do something about social justice. We're going to put money behind it.” But as we know, this particular socio-historical and political context is saying back off from that. So, we may even need to reimagine what we call the program. These are certainly questions that I have and we may have to be a little bit more strategic about the kinds of funders that we seek out to support our initiatives.
Lillian: That is a really interesting perspective on having to change the name. I’ve never even thought of that. Out of all of your time at Spelman, can you pinpoint a year or a moment that was the most pivotal or impactful for you, or the social justice program?
Dr. Spence: Oh, wow. I think actually the freedom I was given to develop the program and to actually design the student residence in the program hall.. I mean, who gets that opportunity? I think about it sometimes, Dr. Tatum said to me, "We are getting ready to remodel Laura Spelman Hall. Would you like it for your program?" And I was like, "Yes, absolutely” cause she knew, in my visioning, I'm saying this should be a living, learning community, da, da, da. She said, "Would you like it for your programming?" And I said, yes. Then, she told the design team that they needed to work with me on the design of the hall So, I spent an entire year working with them. I had hired a former Spelman student to work with, graduate Angela Boudau, and we spent an entire year meeting with our Head of College Archives, who is no longer with us, Rhonda Spencer. Finding photos of the history of Spelman, the history of Spelman in terms of social justice activism, and the history of Spelman in terms of the Laura Spelman Rockefeller Hall. Then, I just spent time identifying women whom I wanted to be in conversation with our students. Those who are still with us and those who are not. I was able to design that mural over there.
Lillian: It's beautiful.
Dr. Spence: Thank you. So yes, I think that was a pivotal moment for me. I don't know if there are other examples of that on this campus, and whenever I get some time, I'm going to write about it, but I don't have any time, but I am going to write about that. How do you construct a physical space that is devoted to social justice? Picking the portraits throughout the building. I was able to say, “I want this person. I want that person.” That is one of the many things that I always remember as a part of my legacy at Spelman. I have actually had a physical structure that I was able to work with others to create. Clearly, there were others that were part of it. But it's my vision that was affirmed by the then-president. And so that was quite pivotal. But, there have been other moments at Spelman. I've had a wonderful life here. I've been able to reinvent myself. Again, I was in the dean's office for 17 years. So I was able to create a lot of the exchange programs that we have now like the domestic exchange program. I created that. I'm at a point in my life where I can say, I did that. I did that. So I was able to create those programs as sustaining. I've had a good life here. I've had many lives. When you talk with people, your age group, you will probably have multiple jobs. This has been it for me. I've been at Spelman for 45 years. But, it hasn't been boring because I've had all these lives here. As I think about how I will leave this place, I know it's been a good ride. It's been a very good ride. And I just always want to make certain that I can leave things that are sustainable. I think about the things I left in the dean's office that are still going, and I will do that for the Social Justice Program as well as the work that I do on a national level. So this is really important.
Lillian: I think that the life that you have lived, especially at Spelman, is incredibly impressive. I hope you know that. But through all that, when was the last time you would say that you were daunted by the fight? How did you recover, pivot, or cope with that fear and uneasiness, especially in the current political climate that we live in where things can seem pretty bleak?
Dr. Spence: They are bleak and I am concerned. I'm not so much concerned about Spelmann. I believe Spelman is resilient, and it will sustain. We've been doing this since 1881. We were founded a couple of years after Reconstruction, and we were founded during a time when lynchings were still popular. You could expect that someone in your family might be lynched, right? I mean, can you think about that kind of mentality that these young women may have had? Women were being sexually assaulted by white mobs throughout the Southeast. Spelman was founded when you had the Atlanta race riots. We have sustained over the years. Civil rights movements, all of that. That doesn't say that it wasn't difficult. Clearly, it was difficult. I cannot imagine the experiences of the women who were here, the students who were here. But we've been able to sustain. I'm more concerned about external to Spelman. What does it mean for individuals who don't have access to healthcare? What does it mean to the poverty line and the increased number of people who are going to be faced with systemic poverty? I mean, folks who were just a paycheck or two away from being middle class are now lower income. Black women have lost jobs all over this country. Yes. And so those are the things that concern me. I believe that we will survive this. But in my lifetime, I've never experienced this. I was born when civil rights were happening. My parents were a part of segregation and all of that. But I wasn't; that wasn't my experience. So in my lifetime, I've never seen anything like this before. Women's rights. I tell my students, you all are living in my mother's world. I had access to reproductive justice. My mother didn't, but that's the world that you all are living in. My mother's world. She's no longer with us. If she were with us, she'd be 101 years old. That's the world that you all are living in around reproductive rights. It's very daunting 'cause I worry about my Spelman students. I worry about your access to reproductive justice. That really does concern me, and we try to do as much as we can to educate women about their options and safety. Because when my mother was coming up, there were back-room abortions and all of that. People didn't know what to do because they could not access them. And that's where you all are.
Lillian: Yeah, it's definitely really scary to think about. One whole generation had full reproductive rights, and now we're back right where we started. It’s so scary. If you could send one message to Spelman Students who are currently fearful or feeling lost, looking at the times that we live in, what would that be?
Dr. Spence: I would say, don't take this experience for granted. Learn as much as you can. Be very intentional about the teaching and learning space, because when this moment passes, when it does move, they're gonna need leaders. They're gonna need thinkers, creative thinkers, individuals who have disciplined minds, individuals who know how to collaborate, and so that's what we're doing here at Spelman. We're trying to teach students to be critical thinkers, to be disciplined thinkers, to be collaborative, and to be creative. Each of those skills is going to be so important as we move through this moment. So don't take Spelman for granted and particularly the teaching and learning space. There's a whole lot of fun you can have at Spelman, right?
(both pause to laugh)
Lots of fun. But the education that we're providing for you should be taken very seriously because you're going to have to fall back on it. And you're going to remember, you know what? I know what's happening now, because I read about this, and we discussed this, and now I'm living through it. But, I've got it. I have a knowledge base that helps me understand what's happening and how I can effect change. So that's what I would say, don't take this environment and the teaching and the learning, and what happens in the classroom for granted, because that's gonna be your artillery. You're gonna need that. You all will be needed. You're gonna be needed. I'm feeling good. I'm like, you know what, I'm getting ready to kind of slow this pace down in a couple of years or so. And I'm gonna be depending on you all. 'Cause I've done what I need to do. And it's your turn, and you're gonna be trying to repair so much damage. But, you are Black women in particular who are needed, but they have to be black thinking women. No fluff. It's got to be thinking, serious women to get us out of this. And you can look at your ancestors and see what they did. Those black women were doing thinking, organizing, and collaborating to build better communities for their community, for the black community. That's what you all are going to have to do. Yeah. And so you got to take advantage of this space.
Lillian: Thank you so much, Dr. Spence. This has been wonderful.
Dr. Spence: And thank you, Lillian.
(laughter)
